Epson 9000 vs Pana 5000 vs JVC x30b

Iniciado por joserraxr

Sí es verdad eso que dices de que se ve algo más digital pero no molesta y como más definido sólo si te acercas.
El Epson hubiera sido una opción quizás más lógica para mí. Mas pequeño, mas apertura-tiro, sin cable y reduciendo obra...Me encanta, pero lo del JVC ha sido más pasional y en 2D lo veo más cinematográfico.

Insisto en que pienso en que hasta que no tuviera uno al lado del otro en mi sala y toda una tarde para toquetear no creó que se pueda concluir objetivamente pero vamos que al final alguna decisión tenía que tomar de una vez.

La verdad es que la apariencia del cacharro es imponente y da gusto solo contemplarlo. Me parece mentira que al final haya entrado un JVC en mi casa cuando al principio solo miraba las máquinas más compactas.

Saludos.

Así es. JVC da una imagen más "suave" (empresa cuyos modelos de cada nueva generación que sacan tiran más hacia la nitidez de otras tecnologías). Aún así, por el panel y sistema utilizado todavía marcan la rejilla más que otras tecnologías. En los Epson depende del modelo, pero también gracias a su mayor ANSI suelen dar una imagen más crispante (algunos dirían "menos analógica" otro dirian más "perfecta"). Yo he visto en misma sala un TW4500 y un VW90Es; el Epson era menos nítido pero marcaba más la rejilla. Cual es mejor que el otro?... ninguno, pues irá a gusto del consumidor.

Lo que sí tengo claro es que la tendencia de la proyección es hacia esa imagen "digital", nítida de una buena TV; sólo hay que ver los proyectores de hace décadas y los actuales para ver cual se parece más a la imagen de una buena TV. De hecho visualizar cualquier proyector de "en sala No dedicada" a pasar dicha sala a "batcave" oscureciéndola siempre se produce un cambio que tira más hacia la imagen de una TV en el segundo caso. El porqué está sobretodo definido por el contraste ANSI que en las TV es muy superior y en proyección se tiende a aumentar en cada nueva generación, al igual que la sala cuanto más cercana a una batcave más relevancia tiene dicho tipo de contraste.


Un saludete

Por imagen digital, entiéndase, imagen excesivamente sobreprocesada, y por imagen excesivamente sobreprocesada, entiéndase, imagen menos cinematográfica. Por esa razón, las reviews más especializadas comentan que JVC es el proyector que en 2D ofrece mayor experiencia cinematográfica. Igual el Epson va mejor para otro tipo de contenidos...

Iniciado por UHD

Por imagen digital, entiéndase, imagen excesivamente sobreprocesada, y por imagen excesivamente sobreprocesada, entiéndase, imagen menos cinematográfica. Por esa razón, las reviews más especializadas comentan que JVC es el proyector que en 2D ofrece mayor experiencia cinematográfica. Igual el Epson va mejor para otro tipo de contenidos...

Lástma que no sea cierta ninguna de las dos premisas.


Un saludete

Iniciado por atcing

Lástma que no sea cierta ninguna de las dos premisas.


Un saludete

La segunda, la de que un Epson posiblemente sea mejor para otras cuestiones, es una suposición, pero lo de que las reviews más importantes destacan al JVC en look fílmico y calidad de imagen 2D como mejores en esa categoría, está muy documentado. Fíjate:

Como era de esperar de un proyector JVC, los niveles de negro y detalles de sombras son excelentes entregar un rendimiento líder en la industria en términos de ratio de contraste y rango dinámico. Como resultado de todos estos factores, el DLA-X30 es capaz de producir maravillosos como película-imágenes que están llenos de claridad y detalle, ofreciendo un rendimiento 2D que es el mejor en su clase, sin importar si usted está viendo definición estándar o de alta contenido.

Excelentes imágenes 2D con una muy 'fílmica' look

JVC X30 (DLA-X30) DILA 3D Projector Review | AVForums.com - UK Online

Iniciado por UHD

La segunda, la de que un Epson posiblemente sea mejor para otras cuestiones, es una suposición, pero lo de que las reviews más importantes destacan al JVC en look fílmico y calidad de imagen 2D como mejores en esa categoría, está muy documentado. Fíjate:



JVC X30 (DLA-X30) DILA 3D Projector Review | AVForums.com - UK Online

No es la primera vez que repites el mismo escrito, que no es otra que una opinión entre muchas otras.


Si es que opiniones las hay para todos los gustos:

Sensación subjetiva en 2D:

La primera película que hice en mi nuevo proyector era Harry Potter 1 blu ray. Esta película es realmente grande para probar la calidad del negro, tonos de gris, la saturación del color y la precisión y la visibilidad de muchos detalles. Primera sorpresa, la calidad del negro! Yo estaba acostumbrado a negro con la JVC y Sony nunca pudo realmente compétionner. Esto es ahora una cosa del pasado. Yo no tengo una JVC pero tenía que comparar mi viejo Mitsubishi HC9000 proyector. Este proyector ofrece una calidad de negro JVC RS40/45 aproximadamente igual a (medido y confirmado por varias personas). Bueno, ¡sorpresa! El Sony negro ofrece igual a 9000 Mits tal vez incluso un poco mejor

Otra sorpresa fue en la claridad y precisión de la imagen. Sony presenta este año un nuevo procesamiento de imágenes se llama "La creación de la realidad". Se activa a 20 (de 100) de forma predeterminada. Outch, la imagen es precisa, y una inmersión desconcertante claridad. Tienes que verlo para entender, pero son de hecho Wholesale parece que acaba de comprar un proyector de 10.000 dólares.

Después de mi prueba 2D fue muy positiva y sólo me recuerdan por qué este proyector es mi corazón de repente en 2011.

Si no investigar a calibrar el proyector no es grave porque Sony ha incluido una modalidad que se llama "referencia". En este modo, el color, escala de grises y gamma son muy cerca de la norma, por lo que no necesita calibración fuera de la caja.

Projecteur 3D Sony VPL-HW50ES *** Compte rendu

Greetings, Let’s talk some more, about Sony’s VPL-HW50ES projector.


The HW50ES Projector - Picture Quality is Excellent!
Well, you’ve probably seen some of my previous home theater projector blogs from, and post CEDIA 2012. If so, you probably think I have led you to believe that one of the most impressive projector values I saw there is Sony’s new HW50ES – it’s full name, of course: VPL-HW50ES. If so, you got it right.

I’ve had the VPL-HW50ES here since Tuesday evening, except for the 24 hours away at Mike’s for calibration. I’ve got 20 hours of viewing so far.

BTW I believe this unit is one of the two used in Sony’s “shoot-out” against the Epson 5010 and the JVC RS65 I believe, (last year’s $11,999 projector with eShift) that they were showing to dealers (and press).

Before I get into this, a note about 4K… To date, I’ve reviewed exactly 1 4K projector. That’s the Sony VPL-VW1000ES our Outstanding Product of the year. All this upscaling to 4K, upverting to 4K, or just plain calling all these other projectors “4K” is simply NOT 4K!

Here’s the simple test. One that all the others fail, including eShift with its physically shifting the pixels a fraction of a pixel diagonally and then firing again.

Imagine true 4K – or perhaps the 4K equivalent of 1080p: 3840×2160. Now go pick out exactly 4 pixels in a square. Make the top left one white, the top right red, the bottom left blue, and the bottom right green.

It’s simple. In true 4K, you end up with exactly that. white and three discreet colors. In any other scheme, you end up with a mess, because, folks, instead of 4 pixels, you only have one to work with. so, depending on the algorithm, you’ll end up with various shades of gray or faint color.

I will blog or video, or write about this in depth. I really hate the 4K designator, showing up on LCDTVs etc. I believe I may have used it a couple of times in previous blogs about this projector without constantly defining what real 4K is.

Let’s say all this other stuff, is really ‘detail enhancement’ but that doesn’t sound as sexy as 4K.

Hey we all hate keystone correction as it softens the image and destroys 1:1 pixel mapping for precision viewing. These are essentially doing the same thing, with different goals in mind. yes they can give you a much sharper looking image, just remember all that fancy software still has to have an offsetting trade-off.

And that brings us back to the Sony VPL-HW50ES. Let me start with some basic info obtained since receiving this projector:

Yes, the HW50ES is definitely brighter than the less expensive HW30ES and even the more expensive VPL-VW95ES. Mike measured best mode (zoom at mid-point, of course) at a massive 992 lumens!

Brightest mode was just shy of 1300 lumens, but for best bright mode, Bright TV measured 1131 lumens. That may not be in the league of some flame throwers like the Epson and Panasonic projectors, but it is much brighter than any of those comparing calibrated best modes.

Good news. 3D brightness seems to be way up, thanks to apparently glasses, new algorithms, etc. Note, these glasses are not compatible with Sony 3D LCDTVs to the best of my knowledge. Glasses are rechargeable and come with a USB connector on one end, and a small plug on the other that goes into the glasses behind a soft cover that you move out of the way to expose the socket.

I did watch 3 Musketeers most of the way through, projecting about 100″ diagonal. I was very pleased to find the Sony to be reasonably bright at that size. Given, I had the glasses in the second brightest setting, but even there, the Sony looked rather clean in terms of crosstalk. I will say I was very impressed with the 3D on that setting. I’ve yet to go “hunting” crosstalk, like so many of you like to do, but I will for the full review. I did try Monster House for 5 minutes projecting 124″ diagonal 2.35:1. Definitely could have used a bit more brightness there. Oh, I can watch it, but I have that group of friends I like to bring in for opinions on such things, and I’m sure two of them have no interest in watching 3D with the brightness at that size (maybe if they will watch with the glasses setting at 4 – brightest.)

The picture looks great. Even my wife commented.

Black levels are very good. Better than the Epson 5010/6010? That’s probably the question many of you want to hear the answer to. You’ll have to wait. I could conjecture right now, but I’m saving that for the full review. I have yet to put the Sony VPL-HW30ES side by side against the Epson HC5010 I have here. That’s probably going to happen tomorrow night or Monday.

Reality Creation – Sony’s upscaling or upverting – or up something to “4k”. All the talk doesn’t matter, it’s not 4K. What it is, however, is rather stunning dynamic detail/sharpness enhancement.

This I can say about it. I consider the goals of Reality Creation to be similar to Epson’s Super-Resolution. That said, unless there’s a real improvement in Super-Resolution on the new 5020 and 6020 Epson projectors, then I think you can count on Sony having the better implementation.

The core difference – you can get more apparent detail/sharpness out of the Sony before artifacts start giving it an artificial look. In other words you can get a sharper seeming image out of the Sony before you start noticing things you really do not want to be noticing. Enough said for now.

I’m mostly keeping Reality Creation in the 35 and under settings level. (out of 100), yet it’s still creating an impressively crisp image. If I understand correctly (waiting for a white paper), the Sony’s algorithm is smart – not just the usual upscaling type processing, but rather clever. I believe it uses facial identification, etc. That is, the Sony projector tends to know what it’s trying to enhance, so that it doesn’t go over the top on things that would be obvious.

Manual zoom and focus – as usual, very little drop between wide-angle and telephoto. A good amount of vertical and horizontal lens shift. The same or similar (very good) remote control, from last year.

The panning problem detected on some older Sony’s (seen in a pan of the neighborhood in the movie RED, is not there. It’s a tough pan, but this Sony projector is comparable to other good projectors in this regard. That’s still a tough pan, for any projector but, for example, the older VPL-VW90ES had a bitch of a time with that scene. Not so, this VPL-HW50ES projector.

No CMS per se. No problem. there are at least 8 “preset” color space modes for the individual colors. Basically Sony has giving you many choices, instead of a set of controls.

Mike’s commented when calibrating it, that basically there’s no need for the CMS, several of the provided Color Space modes are excellent. For the calibration he settled on the color space Sony calls BT.709. Of note, Color Space 1, 2, and Wide 3, are all expanded color spaces.

At the end of the day, Sony’s strengths are overall color/picture quality, and for those that like, an exceptionally detailed and sharp looking image. Brightness is also a major plus with, really, only the 3LCD projectors able to significantly out muscle the HW50ES when you need maximum brightness, and they can’t do that in their calibrated modes.

If your thing is by far, movies first, dedicated or at least very good light controlled room, this Sony’s going to be really, really tough to beat. As big a fan as I tend to be of the Epson 5010, I suspect the new 5020′s biggest advantage over this Sony will be the much lower selling price, and the maximum brightness, rather than an advantage in picture quality. We’ll know, soon enough.

That’s all I have for you right now. Ah, a thought about 3D movies. The 3 Musketeers isn’t much of a great movie, but it is a great movie for viewing 3D. That, Hugo, Tron, Monster House, Alice, and one of Stephen Lowes movies – such as Tahiti 3D Ultimate Wave or Legends of Flight, and my new copy of Avatar 3D (finally) pretty much represent the 3D content I’ll be focusing on in commenting about 3D performance.

OK, give me 4-5 days to do my photo shoots, my side by sides, lots more viewing (football all day tomorrow), and get the full review published, with the other goodies you are waiting for, including how good those black levels are…

Thanks! -art

The Art of Home Theater Projectors » Blog Archive » Sony VPL-HW50ES Projector Review – In Process – A First Look!

Greetings Projector Fans – in a couple of month’s Sony’s shiny new VPL-HW50ES should hit the streets. This VPL-HW50ES is a new projector that slides into the lineup above the HW30ES and way below the VPL-VW95ES.

Let’s position it first. The price tag will be $3999 or was it $3995? The HW50ES will come with a spare lamp for the money. The VPL-HW50ES, will be available through local dealers, of course, but also be a select couple of authorized online resellers as well.

So, back to the title above. I’m of course, not implying that Sony normally doesn’t get it right, after all, in this last year, their VPL-VW95ES – their flagship 2K projector, tied for our Best In Class award $3500-$10,000, while the VPL-VW1000ES at only $24999 is simply the best projector I’ve ever had the pleasure of viewing and reviewing, and really earned our Outstanding Product of the Year.”So, what’s got me so enthused about the HW50ES?

It just seems like a major step up from the HW30ES for not too bad a price difference. Better brightness, blacker blacks, 2K to 4K upscaling essentially. (Only 2K panels, but as many of you know, there are real benefits even if, of course, if a true 4K projector can do better with either 2K or 4K content. Still, their Reality engine does the trick. At this point, I’d have to say, the best use of a detail enhancement engine I’ve seen in anything under $10K. I got to see it side by side vs. an Epson 5010, and was really impressed. Essentially you can punch the Epson 5010′s Super-Resolution to the top setting of 5, and you get similar detail enhancement overall, but at least the 5010 is not as clean when pushed that hard. Of course I’m comparing against a last year’s model, still, it looked really good.

Also of note, out of the box picture quality looks very good, obviously very close to D65 – 6500K, the desired standard. Apparently there’s improved color controls as well.

Did I mention that it looks like the HW30ES, which is to say, manual zoom and focus, so about the only thing missing is a lens memory type feature (found on the bigger Sony’s) for those wanting a 2.35:1 screen. That said, as you would expect, the Sony can accept an anamorphic lens, no sled needed. That will take the price up a bit should you want that widescreen, but not enough more to break the bank, in all likelihood.

Sony did a great job of demoing it. I’ll try to write later (from memory) about how it looked compared to last year’s top of the line $12,000 JVC… Let’s just say dealers in the demo room were almost stunned that the HW50ES could in terms of picture quality, take on the JVC and not be embarrassed. Not surprising.

So, folks that’s the short version. The projector should be available in 2 months so looking forward to having it do battle with the classic projectors in the price range, as well as a couple thousands more that I expect it will beat.

This is a great addition to the Sony lineup. As I was very aware and had seen several other projectors (Panasonic, Epson) before the show, this was the one new projector at the show that dazzled me the most.

Hang in there, it’s going to be a blast – plenty of new home theater projectors this year to get exited about. -art

The Art of Home Theater Projectors » Blog Archive » Sony VPL-HW50ES Projector – Sony Gets It Right

Parece que eso de la referencia en 2D de JVC es algo más que discutible. Hasta tu querido Tom Hoffman prefiere la imagen del HC9000 a la del JVC RS40:

TomHuffman:
Yes and no. Yes, in that the 18,000:1 figure is almost certainly obtained by using the dynamic iris, which I did not use. As I said, the numbers I quoted were native contrast. No, in that the RS40 has even higher native contrast, but to my eyes for the vast majority of material the difference between the two is visually negligible in this regard. Speaking only for myself and my own perceptual biases, I preferred the Mits image because of the DLP-like snap and clarity.

Also, the SMPTE standard for a reference projector is 4000:1. In my view, any projector that provides that much native contrast or better with adequate brightness offers excellent performance.

NEW MITSUBISHI HC 9000 : FULL HD, 3D and..... Lcos panels

TomHuffman:
Sí y no. Sí, en la que la figura 18,000:1 es casi seguro que obtiene utilizando el iris dinámico, que no usamos. Como ya he dicho, las cifras que he citado fueron contraste nativo. No, en que el RS40 tiene incluso mayor contraste nativo, pero a los ojos de la gran mayoría del material de la diferencia entre los dos es visualmente insignificante a este respecto. Hablando sólo por mí y por mis propios sesgos perceptuales, preferí la imagen Mits debido a la presión DLP-like y claridad.

Además, la norma SMPTE para un proyector de referencia es 4000:1. En mi opinión, cualquier proyector que establece que tanto contraste nativo o mejor con el brillo adecuado ofrece un rendimiento excelente.

Es preferible ser amplio de miras que partidista. Como puedes ver hay opinones para todos los gustos.



Un saludete

Iniciado por atcing

No es la primera vez que repites el mismo escrito.

¿Repetir escritos? Viniendo de tí me lo tomaré a risa, si tenemos en cuenta que en casi todos tus mensajes repites el tema de sala dedicada con sala no dedicada. Póntelo estampado en la firma y ahorrarás tiempo de escritura.

Pues yo soy una balanza y e tenido las dos......... pero para gustos los colores y no hay mas , el jvc en contraste es inigualable , pero si parecido al sony , pero los sony en los demas lo aplasta al jvc , salo eso , saludos