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Actualidad internacional

  1. #166
    asiduo
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    Regístrate para eliminar esta publicidad

    Cita Iniciado por Albert Dirac Ver mensaje
    Intervienes diciendo que no ha habido incidentes provocados por los seguidores de Donald Trump, y cuando se te demuestra que estás equivocado, nada menos que con un asesinato y un intento de secuestro, entonces sales con que queremos justificar no se qué historias.
    Creo humildemente que te equivocas, o de nuevo me he expresado muy mal.

    Me quedo con tu último párrafo que es lo que me interesa y a lo que intentaba referirme en mi mensaje inicial.

    Saludos
    Cañoncito, Miguedu66 y Albert Dirac han agradecido esto.

  2. #167
    experto Avatar de Gedeon69
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    Cita Iniciado por acid1977 Ver mensaje
    Creo humildemente que te equivocas, o de nuevo me he expresado muy mal.

    Me quedo con tu último párrafo que es lo que me interesa y a lo que intentaba referirme en mi mensaje inicial.

    Saludos
    El chaval de 17 años mató a dos personas e hirió a una tercera. Si tienes alguna información más o menos fiable sobre si alguna de las víctimas iba armada te ruego lo compartas. Yo no la encuentro por ningún lado.

    Y squí no creo que haya nadie que esté a gusto viendo saqueos o violencia de ninguna clase.

    Y la verdad, me dejas un poco estupefacto, reprochando que señalemos unas cosas más que otras pero a tí tampoco se te lee frecuentemente quejándote de cualquier tipo de incidente o presunta injusticia venga de donde venga. Ese altar de superioridad moral sobre el que te sitúas para juzgar a los demás lo veo bastante endeble.

    Y nadie obliga a nadie a contestar o leer estos hilos. Yo igual me tomo un buen descanso.

  3. #168
    asiduo
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Buenas.

    Un enlace sobre lo que indicaba del tiroteo en Wisconsin. Si es verdad o no, obviamente no lo sé, imagino que se verá en el juicio.

    https://diario16.com/kyle-rittenhous...itima-defensa/

    Sobre tu comentario de mi superioridad moral y el altar, no tengo nada que comentar. Lamento que lo percibas así.

    Y efectivamente nadie me obliga a leer el hilo, lo leo con gusto por razones que ya expliqué hace tiempo en otro hilo de la misma sala. Tampoco me siento obligado a contestar, simplemente he expuesto que carezco del tiempo que me llevaría hacerlo de la manera que me gustaría.

    Saludos
    Cañoncito y Miguedu66 han agradecido esto.

  4. #169
    experto Avatar de Gedeon69
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Cita Iniciado por acid1977 Ver mensaje
    Buenas.

    Un enlace sobre lo que indicaba del tiroteo en Wisconsin. Si es verdad o no, obviamente no lo sé, imagino que se verá en el juicio.

    https://diario16.com/kyle-rittenhous...itima-defensa/

    Sobre tu comentario de mi superioridad moral y el altar, no tengo nada que comentar. Lamento que lo percibas así.

    Y efectivamente nadie me obliga a leer el hilo, lo leo con gusto por razones que ya expliqué hace tiempo en otro hilo de la misma sala. Tampoco me siento obligado a contestar, simplemente he expuesto que carezco del tiempo que me llevaría hacerlo de la manera que me gustaría.

    Saludos
    El que presuntamente tenía un arma era el tercero, es decir, que presuntamente ese tercer herido, después de que Kyle hubiera disparado ( y matado) a dos personas, cabe la posibilidad de que empuñara un arma. Puede que así fuera, allí mucha gente va armada y si te encuentras en una situación en que alguien mata a dos personas no es disparatado que éste desenfundase la suya porqué lo percibió como una amenaza. ¿ Eso le da derecho este chaval a hacer lo que hizo ?

    En cuanto a ser policía en EEUU también tiene que ser muy jodido en infinidad de barrios y ciudades. Evidentemente no se puede defender la brutalidad policial, pero hay que estar en su pellejo. Por otro lado tampoco se puede pretender que si un determinado colectivo se siente machacado una y otra vez este se quede eternamente de brazos cruzados poniendo la otra mejilla.

    Lo de altar moral creo que está bastante claro, no me parece muy de recibo que entres al hilo acusando a unos foreros de no acusar o señalar absolutamente a todo el mundo que hace algo reprochable, siendo algo que tú mismo tampoco haces. Además creo que tampoco hay comparación entre dos personas muertas y unos saqueos, que tampoco son del gusto de nadie don dos dedos de frente.

    Decididamente necesito un descanso.

    Y tampoco creas que me siento 100% cómodo en determinados momentos en estos hilos.

  5. #170
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    Si has leído el artículo, verás que se reportan disparos antes del primer muerto.
    Si ves los vídeos, verás que el chico corre en dirección contraria y le atacan por la espalda y le tiran al suelo, y ahí dispara. Si le perseguían por asesinar a otro a tiros o si se defendía no lo sé, imagino que se verá en el juicio. En cualquier caso, ir armado hasta los dientes a una situación así es comprar papeletas para que acabar así (lo digo por el chico, que quede claro). No tengo mayor interés en defenderlo.


    Respecto a comparar dos muertes con unos saqueos, como tú dices, creo que es desconocer lo que han sido las revueltas ANTIFA y BLM de estos meses atrás, o querer restarles importancia. Ha habido más muertos aparte de esos dos que citas, varios policías entre ellos y gente que estaba en la calle en el momento de las revueltas. Mucha gente agredida, iglesias quemadas y saqueos a lo bestia. Tal y como lo pones parece que han entrado cuatro chiquillos a robar en una tienda de electrónica.

    https://www.libertaddigital.com/inte...mo-1276659516/

    Hay muchos videos en youtube que dan una idea de lo que han sido las protestas, por si alguien tiene interés.

    Como dije antes, lo dejo aquí por falta de tiempo. Tampoco me gusta que se lleve a lo personal, aunque a veces parece inevitable. Y eso que últimamente intento no mostrarme beligerante y agresivo en las redes, para que no se sepa que tengo un pene pequeño. Es un tema que prefiero que quede entre mi mujer y yo

    Saludos
    Cañoncito, ravilongui y Miguedu66 han agradecido esto.

  6. #171
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Pues si uno realmente no quiere mostrarse muy beligerante, pero sobre todo, no entrar en lo personal ese último párrafo no era tu mejor opción. Alguien podría interpretarlo como sarcasmo y tomárselo mal

    Si ese fuera el caso, por muy rojo que esté el trapo, al menos yo no entro a ese juego. No me siento cómodo en los barrizales.

    Pero sí ha sido una confesión sincera, en mi opinión , no es una gran idea sacar ese asunto en un foro, aunque sea de forma anónima.

  7. #172
    asiduo
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    Sólo pretendía ser un toque de humor para rebajar el nivel de tensión, está claro que tú y yo no estamos muy alineados, no pasa nada.

    En cualquier caso, reconozco el off topic, habría encajado mejor en el hilo de Masculinidad en el siglo XXI.

    Saludos y buen día
    Cañoncito, Miguedu66 y Gedeon69 han agradecido esto.

  8. #173
    Siempre aprendiendo Avatar de Neverlan
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Es que hay que empezar a investigar quien puso el huevo, si había gallina o fue por creación divina.

    El mundo se está globalizando a marchas forzadas, y lo éticamente aceptable no siempre es igual para para cada sujeto, sobre todo si de países diferentes hablamos.

    La evolución marca los "estándares", el racismo existente en España o en Europa, no tiene nada que ver con el de USA, y menos con el de cualquier parte de oriente medio.

    Por desgracia, o no, según el punto de vista, tienen que pasar generaciones, para que el mundo globalizado se "estandarice" por decirlo de alguna manera.

    Somos espectadores y actores de un cambio en la sociedad, y en algunos decenios se estudiará esta época, a mi no me cabe duda que ni siquiera la revolución industrial supuso un cambio, ni tan brusco ni tan rápido como el que se está produciendo en la actualidad.


    Pero por norma, la gente quiere vivir tranquila, sin violencia, sea del bando que sea.
    toni58, ravilongui, Gedeon69 y 1 usuarios han agradecido esto.
    Ser racional es mirar al universo a la cara y no acobardarse.

  9. #174
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    No me he podido resistir copiar aquí un artículo sobre la rueda de prensa de Giuliani y Powell.

    Fact Checker
    Analysis
    Fact-checking the craziest news conference of the Trump presidency
    This video is currently not available


    By
    Glenn Kessler
    November 19, 2020 at 11:18 p.m. GMT+1
    “What we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through Venezuela, Cuba and likely China and the interference with our elections here in the United States.”

    Support our journalism. Subscribe today.
    — Sidney Powell, attorney for the Trump campaign, Nov. 19

    This is just a snippet of a truly bonkers presentation made by attorneys for the Trump campaign alleging massive fraud in the U.S. voting system.

    Powell described a convoluted scheme under which an “algorithm” manipulated by Democrats switched votes from Trump to Biden. But she claimed it broke down because support was so strong for Trump, so Democrats were forced to use a “back door” method to manipulate the vote with mail-in ballots slipped in during the dark of night.

    AD
    If this sounds crazy, that’s because it is.

    There is no evidence to support any of these conspiracy theories. It would require election workers across many states to be engaged in a massive fraud scheme that won Biden the presidency but failed to flip the Senate from Republican control and cost the Democrats seats in the House.

    Meanwhile, her colleague, former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, made other allegations that have largely been rejected by judges when presented with the supposed evidence. There’s no law against lying to the news media, of course. But in court, Trump’s attorneys have been more circumspect, saying they were not alleging fraud or a stolen election.

    AD
    Here’s a guide to some of the key claims made at the news conference, mostly in the order in which they were presented.

    “I can prove to you that he [Trump] won Pennsylvania by 300,000 votes. I can prove to you that he won Michigan by probably 50,000 votes. When I went to bed on election night, he was ahead in all those states, every single one of those states.”

    — Giuliani

    Trump’s lead disappeared because absentee and early votes largely could not be counted until election night because of rules set by the GOP-controlled legislatures in those states. So in-person votes, which leaned Republican, were reported first. Just in Pennsylvania, more than 1.4 million votes still needed to be counted after midnight. Because these votes were overwhelmingly for Biden, Trump’s lead was wiped out as the hours ticked by.

    AD
    The opposite nearly happened in Arizona. On election night, Biden had a lead of more than 130,000 votes, with 750,000 to be counted. But in this case, the remaining votes leaned Republican, so by the time all of the votes were counted, Biden’s lead had fallen to 10,000.

    But Giuliani is arguing that all of those mail-in ballots should be tossed out in Pennsylvania and Michigan, giving the victory to Trump.

    “Joe Biden told us a few days before the election that he had the best voter fraud team in the world.”

    — Giuliani

    This is false. Giuliani is referring to a bit of manipulated video that originally started with a tweet from a Republican National Committee official and then was quickly spread by Eric Trump, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany and others. It was blocked on Facebook, and Twitter labeled it as misleading.

    AD
    Biden actually was talking about his campaign’s effort to combat voter intimidation, not an organization to commit voter fraud. In a section of the interview that the RNC removed from its clip, Biden even referred specifically to the campaign organization: “We have over a thousand lawyers, over a thousand of them, they’ll answer the phone, if you think there’s any challenge to your voting.”

    “They made significant mistakes, like all crooks do. And we caught them. One of them was pushing out Republican inspectors.”

    — Giuliani

    Judges in Pennsylvania and Michigan have rejected this claim. Trump’s own attorneys have attested in court that his campaign was granted access and observed the process, both in Philadelphia and in other cities, and has found no evidence of fraud.

    AD
    “The recount being done in Georgia will tell us nothing because these fraudulent ballots will just be counted again because they wouldn’t supply the signatures to match the ballots.”

    — Giuliani

    False. The signatures were already looked at — and verified — when the ballots were originally counted.

    Georgia’s Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, rebutted this claim on Facebook when Trump first raised it in a tweet: “Let’s address this disinformation about signature match. We strengthened signature match. We helped train election officials on GBI [Georgia Bureau of Investigation] signature match — which is confirmed twice before a ballot is ever cast.” (The signature is checked when a person requests an absentee ballot and then again when the ballot is returned.)

    AD
    “We have 17,000 provisional ballots cast in Pittsburgh.”

    — Giuliani

    In the news conference, Giuliani suggested these were mostly cases in which Democrats had already cast fraudulent ballots on behalf of someone who unexpectedly turned up to vote. But there is no evidence that is the case; instead, there were a variety of issues, such as a missing signature on a form, that cause a provisional ballot to be used.

    “She [Jessy Jacob] was assigned to voting duties in September, and she was trained by the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan. She’s basically trained to cheat.”

    — Giuliani

    A Michigan judge on Nov. 13 already found Jacob’s presentation was unpersuasive.

    AD
    “The allegations made by Ms. Jacob are serious. In the affidavit however, Ms. Jacob does not name the location of the satellite office, the September or October date these acts of fraud took place, nor does she state the number of occasions she witnessed the alleged misconduct. Ms. Jacob in her affidavit fails to name the city employees responsible for the voter fraud and never told a supervisor about the misconduct,” wrote Wayne County Circuit Judge Timothy Kenny. “Ms. Jacob’s information is generalized. It asserts behavior with no date, location, frequency, or names of employees. In addition, Ms. Jacob offers no indication of whether she took steps to address the alleged misconduct or to alert any supervisor about the alleged voter fraud. Ms. Jacob only came forward after the unofficial results of the voting indicated former Vice President Biden was the winner in the state of Michigan.”

    “They swear to you that at 4:30 in the morning, a truck pulled up to the Detroit center where they were kept counting ballots. The people thought it was food, so they all ran to the truck. Wasn’t food. It was thousands and thousands of ballots.”

    — Giuliani

    AD
    This claim largely stems from a single affidavit that was filed by an alleged witness, Melissa Carone, a contract IT worker for Dominion. But Carone, who made a number of voter-fraud claims, does not even leap to the conclusions that Giuliani drew.

    In her affidavit, Carone simply says that food was brought in on two vans, but “I never saw any food coming out of the vans, coincidentally it was announced on the news that Michigan had found over 100,000 more ballots — not even two hours after the last van left.” Kenny also concluded that Carone’s “allegations are simply not credible.”

    The Michigan Court of Appeals panel Monday denied an appeal of Kenny’s decision. Two of the three judges on the panel were appointed by Republican governors.

    “A case that we dismissed today because that case was attempting to get the Wayne County Board of Supervisors to decertify. Well, they did. They decertified.”

    — Giuliani

    The Wayne County board initially split 2 to 2 on Tuesday but eventually certified the vote 4 to 0 after an uproar ensued. The next day, the two Republicans on the board said they wanted to rescind their votes, which the Michigan secretary of state’s office says is not possible. The statewide board must still certify the statewide total.

    “The Dominion voting systems, the Smartmatic technology software and the software that goes in other computerized coding systems here as well, not just Dominion, were created in Venezuela at the direction of [former president] Hugo Chávez.”

    — Powell

    Chávez has been dead for seven years, but he’s influencing the U.S. election from his grave? Seriously, the Trump attorneys are offering up a stew of misinformation derived mostly from Internet rumors and right-wing blogs.

    Dominion Voting Systems, which makes software that local governments use to help run their elections, is a Canadian company that effectively has its headquarters in Denver.

    The company says it is nonpartisan. “Dominion has no company ownership relationships with any member of the Pelosi family, the Feinstein family, or the Clinton Global Initiative, Smartmatic, Scytl, or any ties to Venezuela,” the company says on a webpage debunking election rumors. “Dominion works with all political parties; our customer base and our government outreach practices reflect this nonpartisan approach.”

    The company operates in 28 states, including Florida and Ohio, two states that Trump easily won. But the contracts are often with individual counties. For instance, Dominion software was used in only two of the five counties that had problems in Michigan and Georgia — and the problems in Michigan were due to human error, according to a detailed account posted by the Michigan secretary of state’s office. (The Trump campaign has requested a recount in Wisconsin, but strangely not in counties that used Dominion systems.)

    Smartmatic, on its own fact-check page, also says this is crazy. Smartmatic, an election technology company, was founded and incorporated in the United States in 2000, inspired by the hanging-chad debate in the 2000 election. It is headquartered in London.

    “Two of the founders, Antonio Mugica and Roger Piñate, continue to run the company as CEO and President, respectively,” the company says. “The majority of shares (83%) are held by SGO, a company owned by the Mugica and Piñate families. The remaining shares are held by employees (10%) and angel investors (7%).”

    “Smartmatic’s software is not licensed or otherwise used by other companies,” the company says.

    There is a long-ago corporate connection to Venezuela, according to news accounts in 2006. Smartmatic replaced Venezuela’s election machinery before a referendum that confirmed Chávez as president in August 2004, and the Venezuelan government made a $200,000 loan to another technology company owned by some of the same people as Smartmatic. With the money from its contracts with Venezuela, Smartmatic in 2005 bought Sequoia Voting Systems, which had contracts in 17 states. But it sold Sequoia in 2007 after an investigation was launched by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States into the company’s possible Venezuela ties. (Dominion eventually purchased assets of Sequoia in 2010, a company spokesperson said.)

    In 2017, Smartmatic reported that the Venezuelan government had announced a false turnout figure for a contested election, adding at least 1 million votes to the number. The company said the absence of election monitors from the opposition — which boycotted the election — allowed for the manipulation of turnout figures. The Venezuelan government, which needed a large turnout figure to lend legitimacy to the election, denied the numbers had been manipulated. The company stopped its work in Venezuela in 2018.

    “Our votes are counted in Germany and in Spain by a company owned by affiliates of Chávez and [current president Nicolás] Maduro. Did you ever believe that was true?”

    — Giuliani

    It’s not true. Votes in U.S. elections are not counted in Germany and Spain.

    “You couldn’t possibly believe that the company counting our vote, with control over our vote, is owned by two Venezuelans who were allies of Chávez, are present allies of Maduro, with a company whose chairman is a close associate and business partner of George Soros, the biggest donor to the Democrat Party, the biggest donor to antifa and the biggest donor to Black Lives Matter.”

    — Giuliani

    More baseless insinuations. Mark Malloch-Brown is chairman of SGO, the parent company of Smartmatic. Malloch-Brown is also on the board of Soros’s Open Society Foundations, which makes grants to civil society groups such as Black Lives Matter. Soros is a billionaire backer of liberal causes but otherwise has no connection to Smartmatic. (Antifa, short for “anti-fascist,” is not an official organization and, thus, would not receive donations.)

    “China also has a substantial presence in Venezuela and substantial interest in making sure that President Trump does not continue in office.”

    — Powell

    This is how Powell slips in a Chinese connection, but it’s ridiculously weak, especially given the nonexistent connection between Venezuela and Dominion.

    “That is true. [Reports that a server was seized in Germany.] It is somehow related to this, but I do not know whether good guys got or bad guys got it.”

    — Powell

    Here, the Trump attorneys embrace an especially ridiculous claim, already debunked in numerous fact checks and flagged by Facebook as false. But it demonstrates how many of their claims are derived from blog posts or Internet posts — and how the Trump team is grasping at straws.

    The story was that the U.S. Army raided the Spanish election software company Scytl in Germany and seized its servers for evidence of manipulation in the 2020 U.S. elections. But Scytl denounced it as “fake news,” noting that it has no offices in Germany. The Army denied it, too. The story was elevated after Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Tex.) said he was told there was “a tweet in German from Germany that the U.S. Army had gone in and seized the Syctl server,” and then Trump’s new favorite network, One America News, aired a report on the claim, claiming that the server would show that Trump actually won 410 electoral college votes, including turning California red.

    The federal Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council Executive Committee and the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council said in a joint statement that there is “no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.”

    Chris Krebs, who headed the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency before being fired this week by Trump, tweeted after the news conference: “That news conference was the most dangerous 1hr 45 minutes of television in American history. And possibly the craziest. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re lucky.”

    “President Trump won by a landslide.”

    —- Powell

    False. Trump lost the electoral college vote, 306 to 232. That’s exactly his margin in his 2016 race against Hillary Clinton — which he constantly called a landslide. Biden has also received more than 6 million more votes than Trump.

    The Pinocchio Test
    This is one of those days when we wished we had more than Four Pinocchios.

    Four Pinocchios

  10. #175
    gurú
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Lo que está intentando hacer el señor Trump tiene un nombre: golpe de Estado.

    No es que sea una sorpresa, en este mismo hilo comentábamos antes de las elecciones:

    "¿Qué hará Trump si se confirma su derrota?. Si va ganando al final del día en el colegio, reclamará que se cierre el recuento y se le proclame como vencedor, sin esperar a terminar de contar sufragios. Si va perdiendo, impugnará en los estados donde vaya la cosa más apretada. A partir de ahí, entraremos en territorio ignoto, y nadie sabe lo que pasará. No se puede descartar la violencia, ni que la situación escale peligrosamente. Trump tratará de presionar a los gobernadores repúblicanos de los Estados donde haya pérdido para que le den como ganador. O llevar la situación al Supremo, confiando en que Amy le devuelva el favor. O... quién sabe".

    Y es básicamente lo que está intentando. Que las legislaturas estatales con mayoría republicana no acepten a los electores certificados por las urnas, sino que manden sus propios electores, obviamente favorables a Trump. Si además el Gobernador del Estado es republicano y lo certifica, miel sobre hojuelas.

    A partir de ahí, el Congreso no se pone de acuerdo en que electores son los que hay que admitir (la Cámara vota una cosa, y el Senado otra), y el asunto entra en una fase donde no se sabe muy bien si acabará ante el Supremo, en un acuerdo político como en 1876, o a hostias.

    No es fácil que consiga sus propósitos, pero tampoco es totalmente imposible. Evidentemente, si arrastra a su país, en el peor de los casos, a una Segunda Guerra Civil americana, le es indiferente. Daños colaterales. Pero cuando alguien se niega a admitir su clara derrota electoral por 306 electores, y 6 millones en el voto popular, a partir de ahí entramos en terreno desconocido. La mejor solución sería que el sector más razonable y democrático del Partido Republicano pusiera un fin a este dislate, pero de momento son muy pocas las voces que se han alzado en ese sentido.
    dacres, Neverlan, toni58 y 2 usuarios han agradecido esto.

  11. #176
    experto Avatar de Gedeon69
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Cita Iniciado por Albert Dirac Ver mensaje
    Lo que está intentando hacer el señor Trump tiene un nombre: golpe de Estado.

    No es que sea una sorpresa, en este mismo hilo comentábamos antes de las elecciones:

    "¿Qué hará Trump si se confirma su derrota?. Si va ganando al final del día en el colegio, reclamará que se cierre el recuento y se le proclame como vencedor, sin esperar a terminar de contar sufragios. Si va perdiendo, impugnará en los estados donde vaya la cosa más apretada. A partir de ahí, entraremos en territorio ignoto, y nadie sabe lo que pasará. No se puede descartar la violencia, ni que la situación escale peligrosamente. Trump tratará de presionar a los gobernadores repúblicanos de los Estados donde haya pérdido para que le den como ganador. O llevar la situación al Supremo, confiando en que Amy le devuelva el favor. O... quién sabe".

    Y es básicamente lo que está intentando. Que las legislaturas estatales con mayoría republicana no acepten a los electores certificados por las urnas, sino que manden sus propios electores, obviamente favorables a Trump. Si además el Gobernador del Estado es republicano y lo certifica, miel sobre hojuelas.

    A partir de ahí, el Congreso no se pone de acuerdo en que electores son los que hay que admitir (la Cámara vota una cosa, y el Senado otra), y el asunto entra en una fase donde no se sabe muy bien si acabará ante el Supremo, en un acuerdo político como en 1876, o a hostias.

    No es fácil que consiga sus propósitos, pero tampoco es totalmente imposible. Evidentemente, si arrastra a su país, en el peor de los casos, a una Segunda Guerra Civil americana, le es indiferente. Daños colaterales. Pero cuando alguien se niega a admitir su clara derrota electoral por 306 electores, y 6 millones en el voto popular, a partir de ahí entramos en terreno desconocido. La mejor solución sería que el sector más razonable y democrático del Partido Republicano pusiera un fin a este dislate, pero de momento son muy pocas las voces que se han alzado en ese sentido.
    Esta es la típica situación en la que parece que no hay otra. Las cosas van a tener que empeorar todavía más antes de que puedan mejorar. Sean cuales sean las consecuencias.

    Trump por lo visto se iba a reunir (o lo ha hecho ya) en persona con los equipos republicanos y gobernadores de esos estados clave. Prietas las filas para lo que se avecina. Tampoco se puede olvidar que cesó al que se negó a sacar las tropas a la calle y sustituto es una incógnita, pero en principio más afín a Trump.

    Esperar y ver.

  12. #177
    diplomado Avatar de Cañoncito
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    ¡Qué bien se ven los golpes de Estado lejanos y cómo cuesta verlos aquí! ...

    En fin, lo que hay que leer, y luego resuelta que los del velo ideológico son los otros.
    ravilongui y Miguedu66 han agradecido esto.

  13. #178
    experto Avatar de Gedeon69
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Cita Iniciado por Cañoncito Ver mensaje
    ¡Qué bien se ven los golpes de Estado lejanos y cómo cuesta verlos aquí! ...

    En fin, lo que hay que leer, y luego resuelta que los del velo ideológico son los otros.
    Si te refieres a que algunos no consideraron lo de Franco un golpe de estado sino un proceso de salvación no puedo estar más de acuerdo en esa ceguera. Y ojo, con eso no digo que la República fuera pura y maravillosa.

    También te equivocas si piensas que todos los han votado a PSOE-Podemos están ciegamente de acuerdo con muchas de sus decisiones. Pero, si no recuerdo mal, en menos de 3 años hay elecciones y los ciudadanos dirán.
    Última edición por Gedeon69; 20/11/2020 a las 14:43 Razón: Escribir en el móvil es un infierno....hartito ...
    dacres, Neverlan, toni58 y 1 usuarios han agradecido esto.

  14. #179
    diplomado Avatar de Vanlose
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Cita Iniciado por Gedeon69 Ver mensaje
    No me he podido resistir copiar aquí un artículo sobre la rueda de prensa de Giuliani y Powell.

    Fact Checker
    Analysis
    Fact-checking the craziest news conference of the Trump presidency
    This video is currently not available


    By
    Glenn Kessler
    November 19, 2020 at 11:18 p.m. GMT+1
    “What we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through Venezuela, Cuba and likely China and the interference with our elections here in the United States.”

    Support our journalism. Subscribe today.
    — Sidney Powell, attorney for the Trump campaign, Nov. 19

    This is just a snippet of a truly bonkers presentation made by attorneys for the Trump campaign alleging massive fraud in the U.S. voting system.

    Powell described a convoluted scheme under which an “algorithm” manipulated by Democrats switched votes from Trump to Biden. But she claimed it broke down because support was so strong for Trump, so Democrats were forced to use a “back door” method to manipulate the vote with mail-in ballots slipped in during the dark of night.

    AD
    If this sounds crazy, that’s because it is.

    There is no evidence to support any of these conspiracy theories. It would require election workers across many states to be engaged in a massive fraud scheme that won Biden the presidency but failed to flip the Senate from Republican control and cost the Democrats seats in the House.

    Meanwhile, her colleague, former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, made other allegations that have largely been rejected by judges when presented with the supposed evidence. There’s no law against lying to the news media, of course. But in court, Trump’s attorneys have been more circumspect, saying they were not alleging fraud or a stolen election.

    AD
    Here’s a guide to some of the key claims made at the news conference, mostly in the order in which they were presented.

    “I can prove to you that he [Trump] won Pennsylvania by 300,000 votes. I can prove to you that he won Michigan by probably 50,000 votes. When I went to bed on election night, he was ahead in all those states, every single one of those states.”

    — Giuliani

    Trump’s lead disappeared because absentee and early votes largely could not be counted until election night because of rules set by the GOP-controlled legislatures in those states. So in-person votes, which leaned Republican, were reported first. Just in Pennsylvania, more than 1.4 million votes still needed to be counted after midnight. Because these votes were overwhelmingly for Biden, Trump’s lead was wiped out as the hours ticked by.

    AD
    The opposite nearly happened in Arizona. On election night, Biden had a lead of more than 130,000 votes, with 750,000 to be counted. But in this case, the remaining votes leaned Republican, so by the time all of the votes were counted, Biden’s lead had fallen to 10,000.

    But Giuliani is arguing that all of those mail-in ballots should be tossed out in Pennsylvania and Michigan, giving the victory to Trump.

    “Joe Biden told us a few days before the election that he had the best voter fraud team in the world.”

    — Giuliani

    This is false. Giuliani is referring to a bit of manipulated video that originally started with a tweet from a Republican National Committee official and then was quickly spread by Eric Trump, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany and others. It was blocked on Facebook, and Twitter labeled it as misleading.

    AD
    Biden actually was talking about his campaign’s effort to combat voter intimidation, not an organization to commit voter fraud. In a section of the interview that the RNC removed from its clip, Biden even referred specifically to the campaign organization: “We have over a thousand lawyers, over a thousand of them, they’ll answer the phone, if you think there’s any challenge to your voting.”

    “They made significant mistakes, like all crooks do. And we caught them. One of them was pushing out Republican inspectors.”

    — Giuliani

    Judges in Pennsylvania and Michigan have rejected this claim. Trump’s own attorneys have attested in court that his campaign was granted access and observed the process, both in Philadelphia and in other cities, and has found no evidence of fraud.

    AD
    “The recount being done in Georgia will tell us nothing because these fraudulent ballots will just be counted again because they wouldn’t supply the signatures to match the ballots.”

    — Giuliani

    False. The signatures were already looked at — and verified — when the ballots were originally counted.

    Georgia’s Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, rebutted this claim on Facebook when Trump first raised it in a tweet: “Let’s address this disinformation about signature match. We strengthened signature match. We helped train election officials on GBI [Georgia Bureau of Investigation] signature match — which is confirmed twice before a ballot is ever cast.” (The signature is checked when a person requests an absentee ballot and then again when the ballot is returned.)

    AD
    “We have 17,000 provisional ballots cast in Pittsburgh.”

    — Giuliani

    In the news conference, Giuliani suggested these were mostly cases in which Democrats had already cast fraudulent ballots on behalf of someone who unexpectedly turned up to vote. But there is no evidence that is the case; instead, there were a variety of issues, such as a missing signature on a form, that cause a provisional ballot to be used.

    “She [Jessy Jacob] was assigned to voting duties in September, and she was trained by the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan. She’s basically trained to cheat.”

    — Giuliani

    A Michigan judge on Nov. 13 already found Jacob’s presentation was unpersuasive.

    AD
    “The allegations made by Ms. Jacob are serious. In the affidavit however, Ms. Jacob does not name the location of the satellite office, the September or October date these acts of fraud took place, nor does she state the number of occasions she witnessed the alleged misconduct. Ms. Jacob in her affidavit fails to name the city employees responsible for the voter fraud and never told a supervisor about the misconduct,” wrote Wayne County Circuit Judge Timothy Kenny. “Ms. Jacob’s information is generalized. It asserts behavior with no date, location, frequency, or names of employees. In addition, Ms. Jacob offers no indication of whether she took steps to address the alleged misconduct or to alert any supervisor about the alleged voter fraud. Ms. Jacob only came forward after the unofficial results of the voting indicated former Vice President Biden was the winner in the state of Michigan.”

    “They swear to you that at 4:30 in the morning, a truck pulled up to the Detroit center where they were kept counting ballots. The people thought it was food, so they all ran to the truck. Wasn’t food. It was thousands and thousands of ballots.”

    — Giuliani

    AD
    This claim largely stems from a single affidavit that was filed by an alleged witness, Melissa Carone, a contract IT worker for Dominion. But Carone, who made a number of voter-fraud claims, does not even leap to the conclusions that Giuliani drew.

    In her affidavit, Carone simply says that food was brought in on two vans, but “I never saw any food coming out of the vans, coincidentally it was announced on the news that Michigan had found over 100,000 more ballots — not even two hours after the last van left.” Kenny also concluded that Carone’s “allegations are simply not credible.”

    The Michigan Court of Appeals panel Monday denied an appeal of Kenny’s decision. Two of the three judges on the panel were appointed by Republican governors.

    “A case that we dismissed today because that case was attempting to get the Wayne County Board of Supervisors to decertify. Well, they did. They decertified.”

    — Giuliani

    The Wayne County board initially split 2 to 2 on Tuesday but eventually certified the vote 4 to 0 after an uproar ensued. The next day, the two Republicans on the board said they wanted to rescind their votes, which the Michigan secretary of state’s office says is not possible. The statewide board must still certify the statewide total.

    “The Dominion voting systems, the Smartmatic technology software and the software that goes in other computerized coding systems here as well, not just Dominion, were created in Venezuela at the direction of [former president] Hugo Chávez.”

    — Powell

    Chávez has been dead for seven years, but he’s influencing the U.S. election from his grave? Seriously, the Trump attorneys are offering up a stew of misinformation derived mostly from Internet rumors and right-wing blogs.

    Dominion Voting Systems, which makes software that local governments use to help run their elections, is a Canadian company that effectively has its headquarters in Denver.

    The company says it is nonpartisan. “Dominion has no company ownership relationships with any member of the Pelosi family, the Feinstein family, or the Clinton Global Initiative, Smartmatic, Scytl, or any ties to Venezuela,” the company says on a webpage debunking election rumors. “Dominion works with all political parties; our customer base and our government outreach practices reflect this nonpartisan approach.”

    The company operates in 28 states, including Florida and Ohio, two states that Trump easily won. But the contracts are often with individual counties. For instance, Dominion software was used in only two of the five counties that had problems in Michigan and Georgia — and the problems in Michigan were due to human error, according to a detailed account posted by the Michigan secretary of state’s office. (The Trump campaign has requested a recount in Wisconsin, but strangely not in counties that used Dominion systems.)

    Smartmatic, on its own fact-check page, also says this is crazy. Smartmatic, an election technology company, was founded and incorporated in the United States in 2000, inspired by the hanging-chad debate in the 2000 election. It is headquartered in London.

    “Two of the founders, Antonio Mugica and Roger Piñate, continue to run the company as CEO and President, respectively,” the company says. “The majority of shares (83%) are held by SGO, a company owned by the Mugica and Piñate families. The remaining shares are held by employees (10%) and angel investors (7%).”

    “Smartmatic’s software is not licensed or otherwise used by other companies,” the company says.

    There is a long-ago corporate connection to Venezuela, according to news accounts in 2006. Smartmatic replaced Venezuela’s election machinery before a referendum that confirmed Chávez as president in August 2004, and the Venezuelan government made a $200,000 loan to another technology company owned by some of the same people as Smartmatic. With the money from its contracts with Venezuela, Smartmatic in 2005 bought Sequoia Voting Systems, which had contracts in 17 states. But it sold Sequoia in 2007 after an investigation was launched by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States into the company’s possible Venezuela ties. (Dominion eventually purchased assets of Sequoia in 2010, a company spokesperson said.)

    In 2017, Smartmatic reported that the Venezuelan government had announced a false turnout figure for a contested election, adding at least 1 million votes to the number. The company said the absence of election monitors from the opposition — which boycotted the election — allowed for the manipulation of turnout figures. The Venezuelan government, which needed a large turnout figure to lend legitimacy to the election, denied the numbers had been manipulated. The company stopped its work in Venezuela in 2018.

    “Our votes are counted in Germany and in Spain by a company owned by affiliates of Chávez and [current president Nicolás] Maduro. Did you ever believe that was true?”

    — Giuliani

    It’s not true. Votes in U.S. elections are not counted in Germany and Spain.

    “You couldn’t possibly believe that the company counting our vote, with control over our vote, is owned by two Venezuelans who were allies of Chávez, are present allies of Maduro, with a company whose chairman is a close associate and business partner of George Soros, the biggest donor to the Democrat Party, the biggest donor to antifa and the biggest donor to Black Lives Matter.”

    — Giuliani

    More baseless insinuations. Mark Malloch-Brown is chairman of SGO, the parent company of Smartmatic. Malloch-Brown is also on the board of Soros’s Open Society Foundations, which makes grants to civil society groups such as Black Lives Matter. Soros is a billionaire backer of liberal causes but otherwise has no connection to Smartmatic. (Antifa, short for “anti-fascist,” is not an official organization and, thus, would not receive donations.)

    “China also has a substantial presence in Venezuela and substantial interest in making sure that President Trump does not continue in office.”

    — Powell

    This is how Powell slips in a Chinese connection, but it’s ridiculously weak, especially given the nonexistent connection between Venezuela and Dominion.

    “That is true. [Reports that a server was seized in Germany.] It is somehow related to this, but I do not know whether good guys got or bad guys got it.”

    — Powell

    Here, the Trump attorneys embrace an especially ridiculous claim, already debunked in numerous fact checks and flagged by Facebook as false. But it demonstrates how many of their claims are derived from blog posts or Internet posts — and how the Trump team is grasping at straws.

    The story was that the U.S. Army raided the Spanish election software company Scytl in Germany and seized its servers for evidence of manipulation in the 2020 U.S. elections. But Scytl denounced it as “fake news,” noting that it has no offices in Germany. The Army denied it, too. The story was elevated after Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Tex.) said he was told there was “a tweet in German from Germany that the U.S. Army had gone in and seized the Syctl server,” and then Trump’s new favorite network, One America News, aired a report on the claim, claiming that the server would show that Trump actually won 410 electoral college votes, including turning California red.

    The federal Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council Executive Committee and the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council said in a joint statement that there is “no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.”

    Chris Krebs, who headed the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency before being fired this week by Trump, tweeted after the news conference: “That news conference was the most dangerous 1hr 45 minutes of television in American history. And possibly the craziest. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re lucky.”

    “President Trump won by a landslide.”

    —- Powell

    False. Trump lost the electoral college vote, 306 to 232. That’s exactly his margin in his 2016 race against Hillary Clinton — which he constantly called a landslide. Biden has also received more than 6 million more votes than Trump.

    The Pinocchio Test
    This is one of those days when we wished we had more than Four Pinocchios.

    Four Pinocchios
    Hace poco vi una serie que se llama "La Ley de Comin" sobre el director del FBI cesado por Trump tras las elecciones y hay un comentario muy gracioso que hace un personaje que no recuerdo en este momento; "El sitio más peligroso del mundo es el espacio entre Giuliani y un micrófono de prensa".

    Saludos
    Gedeon69 y Aryastark han agradecido esto.

  15. #180
    diplomado Avatar de Vanlose
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    Predeterminado Re: Actualidad internacional.

    Cita Iniciado por Albert Dirac Ver mensaje
    Lo que está intentando hacer el señor Trump tiene un nombre: golpe de Estado.

    No es que sea una sorpresa, en este mismo hilo comentábamos antes de las elecciones:

    "¿Qué hará Trump si se confirma su derrota?. Si va ganando al final del día en el colegio, reclamará que se cierre el recuento y se le proclame como vencedor, sin esperar a terminar de contar sufragios. Si va perdiendo, impugnará en los estados donde vaya la cosa más apretada. A partir de ahí, entraremos en territorio ignoto, y nadie sabe lo que pasará. No se puede descartar la violencia, ni que la situación escale peligrosamente. Trump tratará de presionar a los gobernadores repúblicanos de los Estados donde haya pérdido para que le den como ganador. O llevar la situación al Supremo, confiando en que Amy le devuelva el favor. O... quién sabe".

    Y es básicamente lo que está intentando. Que las legislaturas estatales con mayoría republicana no acepten a los electores certificados por las urnas, sino que manden sus propios electores, obviamente favorables a Trump. Si además el Gobernador del Estado es republicano y lo certifica, miel sobre hojuelas.

    A partir de ahí, el Congreso no se pone de acuerdo en que electores son los que hay que admitir (la Cámara vota una cosa, y el Senado otra), y el asunto entra en una fase donde no se sabe muy bien si acabará ante el Supremo, en un acuerdo político como en 1876, o a hostias.

    No es fácil que consiga sus propósitos, pero tampoco es totalmente imposible. Evidentemente, si arrastra a su país, en el peor de los casos, a una Segunda Guerra Civil americana, le es indiferente. Daños colaterales. Pero cuando alguien se niega a admitir su clara derrota electoral por 306 electores, y 6 millones en el voto popular, a partir de ahí entramos en terreno desconocido. La mejor solución sería que el sector más razonable y democrático del Partido Republicano pusiera un fin a este dislate, pero de momento son muy pocas las voces que se han alzado en ese sentido.
    Yo no tengo dudas que este hombre tiene todo el perfil que define a un dictador, supongo que como muchos otros pero este tiene la ventaja de que lo deja documentado. En cualquier caso Estados Unidos es un país institucionalmente blindado y no tengo ninguna duda de que no le va a llevar a ningún lado su actitud. El tema de la calle (El Pueblo ¡¡¡) tampoco me parece tan alarmante, tendría que existir una situación económica y social gravísima para que todo se aincendiara y saltara en pedazos.

    Saludos

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